Riuva : Research Institute for Unicultural Visual Arts

46 Responses to “Gloom and Doom: Otakus’ Mums are Getting Raped!”  

1. 1 Mark 1 comment Jul 17th, 2007 at 1:54 am

   I’m curious, would they be able to track you if you stick to streaming sites like veoh.com?

2. 2 DrmChsr0 190 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:05 am

   Everyone is in the wrong.

   ODEX, for trying to strongarm customers and the fans, for breaking the Berne Convention (and being annoying, but that’s no crime).

   While I can’t fault the poor guy for being impatient (and I won’t go into how he should have known better…), we really need to take a deep look at why are we in this hobby. If we’re in it because of free entertainment… we should just leave. If you want free entertainment, go to a friggin’ library.

   After all, merch does not give the creators (much) and does not give the animation studios any money. Animators need to eat, you know.

3. 3 Lynx 32 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:20 am

   Simple question. SG being SG, if don’t strongarm, how to get the money for the animators also?

   If anyone got ideas how to make distributing anime viable here in SG, I for one would like to hear also.

4. 4 tj_han 1440 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:22 am

   Lynx, we had a discussion here on that a while back.

   http://www.riuva.com/?p=631

5. 5 Lynx 32 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:24 am

   Ah ok, let me go catch up while you guys carry on…

6. 6 Lynx 32 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:36 am

   Ok, I caught up, but not with all the replies. Basically, some of the stuff discussed in there is relevant and has possibilities, but that’s basically long term; to put any of those in place would require quite a bit of infrastructure, software, and probably governmental involvement. In other words, NOT FAST.

   So in the short term, the Odex saga will still roll on. Fathers and Mothers will still pay the price for the sins of the Sons and Daughters. I don’t think Odex is being unreasonable, so negotiations on a case-by-case basis are probably possible.

   Of course, negotiation requires both parties to admit they have a problem. Knowing SGeans, some of the “offenders” (this word is in quotations for a reaso so don’t nag me for it) will adopt a “it’s internet so it’s free” attitude. Much hammering would ensure in those cases, methinks.

   Gargh, rehashing old grounds here, I suppose.

   IMO, what’s the best way to handle things? Duck and cover. Ride the blastwave out and see what happens. At the moment, Odex holds most of the cards so it’s not going to be very healthy to stick your head out.

   Definitely some.. er, much bad feelings would be generated between the average otaku and Odex, but let’s give SG businessmen some credit; they probably have something in the works. If not, they are TRULY stupid.

7. 7 Crusader 28 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 3:22 am

   Wow. ODEX must have the whole judicial system in its back pocket to begin threatening people like this. After all aren’t the police supposed to be serving warrants and bring people in for questioning or is Singapore turning into a dystopia and corporate haven? One can’t help but wonder if they can even afford bring all these “cases” to court. Even then if this happened in the US the Judge might just throw out the case altogether since ODEX is threatening people who are essentially bystanders.

   One can only hope that their profits fall at a much faster rate from pulling off shit like this.

8. 8 Melonpan 20 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 3:34 am

   We’re doomed! Masa san… helpu miii!

9. 9 mt-i 8 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 3:47 am

   I’m with Crusader on this one. If a company were to try a trick like this here in France, which is not easy because you need an actual lawsuit to obtain personal information based on IP adresses and such, it would not only go out of business from the bad PR but also get its ass kicked in court for extortion and swindle.

10. 10 Ravage 12 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 4:21 am

    No way such a move would be legal here in The Netherlands, the company would get its ass kicked from all sides. Pretty much the same as mt-i I guess. Still, my thoughts go out to you poor Singaporeans, suffering under ODEX’s despotism.

11. 11 takumi2k4 2 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:10 am

    While I’m no legal expert nor do I know the laws in SG, but does ODEX even have a right to do this? Sure they “have” the license or whatever, but surely they can’t just tell you that you’re going to jail. If ODEX was here in the States, they can be sued for invasion of privacy, and of course a simple reformat of an hard drive will erase all evidence. But can’t you SG’ers sue them for invasion of privacy?

    As it stands, this definitely is invasion of privacy. If a govt. agency raids your house with the proper warrant and discovers that you were downloading illegally, then they have the right to bring you down. But if you were caught downloading without them issuing a warrant, then they can’t have a say. They can send you a Cease and Desist letter and a warning, but that’s about it, until they actually get a warrant to search your computer, you’re free to download whatever you want.

    But from the looks of things, none of that is going to happen.

    Well, good luck to y’all SG’ers.

12. 12 Seth 78 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:57 am

    There is no privacy in Singapore. It is a totalitarian state ruled by the tyranny of those prejudiced against chewing gum and otaku.

13. 13 anonymous 9 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 8:46 am

    Irrelevant title. Chech.

14. 14 koko 1 comment Jul 17th, 2007 at 9:53 am

    SG is a country were ppl are very very busy , apparently jobs are hard o.o and thank god that there is no ODEX in canada , sounds to me like the CIA of SG XD , anyway ? anime being illegal for download is stupid … the government of Japan didnt even make them do so , Singapore is very strict , like every1 says ….. I still remember the gum law when i went there o.o

15. 15 Mitsuki_Hayase 336 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 10:16 am

    Well, even with the gum law in place, I sat on seats with chewing gum glued to them at least 3 times (before the amendment with the US-Singapore FTA).

    Not to mention the countless times I found/felt chewing gum coagulating under seats.

16. 16 orangee 1 comment Jul 17th, 2007 at 10:24 am

    Well, technically when we distribute or download any kind of media without permission it is illegal. Just unfortunate though that your government, along with the private companies are very efficient and really punish those who do ‘illegal’ things.

    Blame your small population, too easy to control. xD

17. 17 feng 38 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    Whatever restructuring ODEX has been undergoing, the website certainly doesn’t give any clue. The point of PR is still lost on them. Wonder if the rep is still lurking around here.

    It seems SingNet is their good pal, unless they’ve actually found some other means to the IP logs. Both have pretty disturbing implications.

    In the meantime, importing from US and Japan is quite a big pain, what with payment security woes and the argh-it’s-taking-too-long wait. I hope ODEX is seriously looking at distributing R1 and R2 DVDs.

18. 18 Marmot 18 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    That’s pretty awful, man. I’m really glad that I don’t live in Singapore. =/

19. 19 Kouji 49 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    I think i got tio….

    Shit… There’s a private and confidential letter sitting in my letter box now..

20. 20 tj_han 1440 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    Kouji: Go open it. Maybe it’s a luckydraw prize from your bank.

    Note to all: Singapore is a pretty decent place. It rocks if you’re a fully law-abiding citizen. Unfortunately, none of us here are completely law-abiding.

21. 21 Kouji 49 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 5:37 pm

    @tj_han:

    Let’s hope it is. If i do get it’ll, i’ll make sure i’ll try to inform everyone about what will and what could happen.

    No one in Singapore is law abiding. Everyone jay-walks so yeah…

22. 22 exalt dragon 162 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    Suddenly I get the urge to kill someone before I turn 18…If someone would please supply me with the details(names, home addresses, places of work, etc) of the odex executives who came up with this plan, you can send them to me at exaltdragon(insert “at” here)gmail(put a dot here)com

    All right, violent tendencies aside, I wonder what’s motivating Singnet to tell odex the details of those IP addresses? As far as we know, Starhub has not betrayed any of it’s customers right? Can anyone who has heard of starhub customers getting the black letter please speak out?

23. 23 feng 38 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    tj_han: Agree that it’s great, but I believe the laws here, as they probably are in most places, are quite broadly defined in certain areas, so much that it may be impossible to be completely law-abiding. Most of us are not convicted of anything simply because we’re beneath notice.

    exalt dragon: Maybe there are simply a lot more SingNet users than Starhub ones? Think Starhub ones would be easier to catch though, since they are on static?

    Anyone has direct contacts for Odex? Probably need to be pro-active and find out what the heck they are doing behind the scenes (are they even intending to continue their VCD/DVD business?), instead of sitting around waiting to be preyed on.

24. 24 ChronosAI 23 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Much like in mt-i in France, here in Finland you wouldn’t be even able to send C&D letters to anyone without it being threatening and hence unlawful.
    That helps but they can take the route of “co-operative companies complaint law-challenge” when they put up a report of an offence to police and wait for them to see if there is any base to the report.

    And if there were, then they would raid all the major uploaders and site holders, taking all the electronic hardware for deep scanning (format wouldn’t if not help nor encryption, they have the time mostly) and you’d be in court ½ year from now on and mostly paying fines. The jail time is reserved to those who try to make money with it (yeah, donations may count).

    And yeah, format won’t help you, the data is still recoverable by (costly) means but only 7-row-format would get the feds mostly annoyed and skip it due complexity of data recover operation as it is after 7 formats a challenging task to most professionals on the field.

    There was one arrest on big domestic BT tracker and one had a FreeBSD operating system and had put strong encryption on one of the hdd partition. The fed’s took 1 year to crack it open and it only contained police.txt which said “screw you.”. I’d like to see the investigator’s face when he finally cracked it open. Must be pretty priceless face s/he did there.

    Yeah, good luck for you SG’s, I can only that and give the following advices and I won’t be saying “support the makers” as any near-lawful otaku is deemed as negligent if they don’t at least buy some matearial there is and if you support the original versions, that’s best you can do, but “domestic” releases also way to reflect it. Though don’t buy pure shit when you could have better (VCD vs DVD). Support the sources and you have done the good every fan can and should. If you are for free entertainment, please leave silently.

    1: Avoid all the most popular trackers and series
    2: Swtich to alternate p2p tracker’s or p2p distribution methods, raws if nothing else helps.
    3: Use something like TrueCrypt to encrypt hdd partitions or make encrypted container for “not for others” stuff.

    For people who like being secure and are paranoid:
    4. Hide your HDD’s 1-meter below ground in your garden within case with winding cable’s and self-support cooling along with external power-source that keeps them online when you disconnect cables so that they can turn-off themselves without problems.

    Have fun.

25. 25 Ikan 1 comment Jul 17th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    I kena Odex siahs,
    people who oso kena please add me in email
    ^^

26. 26 Lynx 32 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    WRT Singnet and ODEX, odds are there is an accomodation. From what I know, ODEX does have the owner’s (i.e., the originating animation company or at least the primary license holder) O.K. to pursue the matter. Given Singnet’s nature, it’s probable that they assisted out of goodwill.

    And IDA is probably involved also. Govt won’t want us to appear to be pirate capital of SEA. If that’s the case, don’t bank on Starhub holding out forever. For all you know, they’re just stacking the evidence up (or they previously didn’t have good records… it’s tough to merely maintain that much logs, tougher even to comb through the whole lot to link bittorrent package #1208530 with account TanAhKow@starhub.com).

    In a way, it’s good for the anime scene in SG. Fansubs may be free and nice and all, but they are stifling the direct local anime support. Since you can get direct RAWs (for those sufficiently fluent in Japanese) or US-based fansubs, it’s difficult for SG-based subbing companies to compete, especially since the US subbers seem to have WAAAY too much time to do things. This means it’s hard for SG industries to grow.

    Going — and enforcing — legal allows local companies to have some breathing space and actually make money off sales of series — far more than mechandising, IMO, but hey, I could be wrong. This in terms places pressure on them to provide timely content. Since no one single company can possible keep up with the varied demands of the SG Otakus, it opens up avenues for more companies other than ODEX to come into the market to compete.

    From a certain perspective, it’s really to grow SG’s animation and production capabilities, so that eventually, maybe 10 or 20 years down the road, we can actually do our own animation productions on a scale competitive enough to stand on the world stage.

    Of course, might all be a pipe dream, neh?

27. 27 Orochi 27 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 10:59 pm

    So another bunch of n00bs get p0wnZ.

    Any other reasons I should be sad and get all worked up ?

28. 28 tj_han 1440 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:05 pm

    You mean reasons beside the fact that you’re a lolicon otaku? Maybe not.

    Anyway, the whole issue has been talked about to death, so I’m not really interested in discussing it further. The point is that despite all the logical arguments based on sound economic principles, you wouldn’t be happy to hear about guys being screwed for watching anime.

29. 29 Lynx 32 comments Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:10 pm

    Of course. But SG not exactly the place where the individual’s happiness that big a deal..

    Anyhow, if it’s done to death then maybe we’ll just let things play out the way they would.

30. 30 Model_X 21 comments Jul 18th, 2007 at 12:55 am

    Oh man…more dreaded news. I hope i don’t get any letters soon. Maybe it’s time to play more games and watch less animes.

31. 31 CHICKENRICECREW 59 comments Jul 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    3.5k gone once you kena letter..

32. 32 l-lawliet 43 comments Jul 18th, 2007 at 10:53 pm

    Hmm this explains my blog traffic.

    Anyway i think the jail thing only happens if you refuse to comply and go into discussion with them.
    The first time i ring them up, i think they were using some sort of scaring propaganda.
    They even mentioned that one 14year old boy actually went to the boys home just for this.
    Anyway things are more optimistic now.

33. 33 tiny Red Man 149 comments Jul 19th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    i know everyone don’t feel like talking about this now but i realised something. from L-lawliet’s blog and other sources, we knew that we have 2 choices: 1) to fight a lawsuit. 2) to surrender unconditionally and pay the fine. But we also “know” that ODEX is using underground methods of hacking into our IPs and stealing information on what we downloaded, we can in turn sue them back. Invasion of privacy as compared to illegalling downloading animes, which is a heavier sentence? So, it’s right to assume that if we are rich enough to gang up and fight a lawsuit with them, the possibility of us winning is there. 50% or less though. As wat L-lawliet said, propaganda. Use it right into your target audience’s face, you win. consider what I said. thx.

34. 34 Lynx 32 comments Jul 19th, 2007 at 1:37 am

    Let’s see if Riuva’s comment system allows html tags..

    
    

    But we also “know” that ODEX is using underground methods of hacking into our IPs and stealing information on what we downloaded, we can in turn sue them back. Invasion of privacy as compared to illegalling downloading animes, which is a heavier sentence?

    
    Eh, how you know it’s underground methods? Also, it may not be an invasion of privacy — that depends on the TOS the individual signed with the the ISP and any special agreements that may exist without our knowledge..

    I’m not a lawyer, but I won’t be too surprised if in SG, illegal downloading might just carry a heavier penalty than invasion of privacy.

35. 35 UpsideDownTurtle 3 comments Jul 19th, 2007 at 10:05 am

    I can’t remember which blog I read from but I do recall someone stating that there is a clause in the Singnet contract.

    The clause states that Singnet will release customers’ info for investigation purposes whenever deem fit, without customers’ knowledge. (something in that context)

    Singnet already has something to cover their rear should anyone use their services for suspicious activities. This way Singnet can say its the cusomters’ fault not mine. I only supply the access to the internet, I cannot stop them from surfing pr0n or downloading blueprints on how to dismantle an atomic bomb.

    Singnet has counter-counter-sued your claims for invasion of privacy or releasing your details to a private org like odex/ avpas.

    So don’t be too happy yet Starhubbers. If there is a similar clause in the Starhub contract, then it is just a matter of time before Starhub joins in the island wide otaku massacre.

36. 36 l-lawliet 43 comments Jul 19th, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    Okay this is what i heard from odex.
    All their doings are actually approved by the gov directly.
    And for every piece of info they get from singnet.
    They are actually using hard solid cash to buy it.
    Infact they actually wanted to started there otaku massacre during mid march.
    But at then they are still waiting for the gov’s approval.

    And regarding the privacy issue. This is what odex told my friend.
    “This is singapore, there are no privacy laws”

    I say if someone were to go into a lawsuit with them.
    Its a lose lose situation.
    I dont see how can anyone fight a lawsuit with the gov and still win.
    This is sg, not the states.

    And for starhub users.
    After they are done with the big fishes in singtel.
    They are moving on to starhub.
    And currently they are buying all the info from starhub as well. Legally.

    For all otakus in sg. Good luck.
    Nth much we can do now. Cept to boycott their products and hope that eventually they go bankrupt.
    But very unlikely.

    Odex is actually much more prepared than you think.
    They have done almost anything to cover their backside before doing anything.

37. 37 l-lawliet 43 comments Jul 19th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    For more questions. Feel free to add me.
    My blog link in on top of the post.
    Just click and you find my MSN contact there.

38. 38 Musashi 1 comment Jul 19th, 2007 at 7:39 pm

    I just wonder if theres anyone who has decided to go into a court battle with Odex ?

    Technically if you look at it, they are profiteering from a newly revised law and when you look at the facts they seem to be extorting compensation fees in return for not pressing charges( in which fines will be paid to the state instead of aggrieved parties).
    Another point to note is that they are digging far into the past history and actually targeting some people who have attempted to stop/quit internet piracy, this seems to show that they are simply drudging up more evidence to squeeze people for more.

    A friend who is studying business law also commented that the fact that they do not wish for their discussion proceedings(how do they come to the compensation sum, etc etc) to be publicized seems quite fishy too.
    He also pointed out the major film studios (e.g Warner studios) send out C&D letters in an attempt to give downloaders a chance to reform themselves(This happens locally too) . These studios have poured in millions to make movies and lose much more then Odex can ever claim and yet they do not straightaway go for settlement and compensation.

    I do not advocate downloading and is not an anime fan, however i do question the ethics and the methods odex has been using so far.
    I think if they do revise their methods and show sincerity, people might actually start buying from them instead of boycotting them.

    Just my 2 cents

39. 39 Insider 1 comment Jul 19th, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    The government did not “approve” ODEX action. if you do not believe, email the relevant agencies.

    Any sales transaction between singnet and odex for the subscriber data is 100% illegal.

40. 40 l-lawliet 43 comments Jul 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Hmm. Okay.

41. 41 Xellos-_^ 7 comments Jul 21st, 2007 at 6:18 am

    You guys basically have 3 choices.

    1. Move to another country

    2. import form the states and cut odex off.

    3. run for office and change the law.

42. 42 Orochi 27 comments Jul 21st, 2007 at 7:20 am

    Alternativly…..

    4)Go for P2P such as W***y, S***e, or the latest P*****t D**K.

    5)Watch anime off Nicovideo

43. 43 dagger 1 comment Jul 25th, 2007 at 1:09 am

    A simple IP blocker should block out known media monitoring sites. The blocklist maintained by PeerGuardian is updated on a daily basis, and should reduce chances of being caught to nearly zero.
    http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/

44. 44 TP 15 comments Aug 4th, 2007 at 2:10 am

    This latest string of threatening legal suits against the poor hapless otaku is akin to those reports on muggers who target otaku in Akihabara recently…

    Unfortunately in Singapore, the majority of the laws and statutes are predominantly pro-business in nature, so there is no legal space for so-called “freedom of expression and thought”.

    There is a 2 sided situation here: by targetting downloaders, I sided with Lynx’s perspective that in the long-term, Singapore will benefit, not just to help “take back lost cash from illegal downloading”, but to create an atmosphere where “creativity is rewarded, and losses from piracy is minimized.”

    (Of course, many people have cited Henry Jenkins’ “When Piracy Becomes A Promotion” article as a counter-argument for the current situation’s “aggressive arm policy.” I would not be bothered to exercise my mind, as right now, it’s 01 43 hours local time.)

    The other side of the coin, then, is what I called “disinterest-ization.” Because of the aggressive arm policy, many people would gradually shun away from investing in this niche hobby - that is, being involved in an ACG community (anime comics gaming). We’re then back at square one. Because of the disinterest, there’s less movement for creativity amongst the local community, and soon the Singapore government will realize as to why the hell are they spending all those money investing in industries that is obviously not making them money in the short term (except in the biomedical science industry - that’s another topic to roll), To put it rather blunt, the creative industry needs some driven support from the fans, and if the fans are apathetic, there’s really not much we can do.

    (To digress a bit, instead of becoming our own creators, we instead become couch potatoes, and now that anime is becoming a “passing fad” due to all the negative hype surrounding the community, we are now regressing to a sort of “Hollywood culture”: nerd (and geek) is not cool, becoming and behaving like Hollywood celebrities is. Try thinking supporting The National Enquirer, or US Weekly that has made me to believe that the whole Hollywood phenomenon is promoting fakeism, where shallow thinking, fratboyism and having superficial needs like investing on plastic surgery is the “in” thing right now.)

    Even if the animation industry here were to survive, I don’t think we would have created stables along the likes of Miyazaki, Abe or the fabled Studio 4°C, and many other indie animators of the like. We’re then stuck to the same old formula (try to fear the “shounen formula” example), and “crap commercialization” sets in: for the sake of producing mass quantities of shows that obviously are there just for milking, not entirely critics-worthy.

    A 2 cents’ worth from me. Maybe I should just shut up and be gone. But then again, being emo-angsty is like a therapy for me. Whatever it is, the wisdom in this fiasco needs to be found, since we’re neither the far-sighted pragmatic LKY (”Thank The Father, The Son, and The Holy Goh.”) nor the Alan-Greenspan-type-of-respected Goh Keng Swee. The truth is out there, and for the sake of both otaku and the future of Singapore, we need to sit down and discuss.

1. 1 Words of Wisdom < lolicontrol Pingback on Jul 21st, 2007 at 1:45 am
2. 2 × • = bj0rN = • × » Fellow Singaporeans. Please Heed This Advice. Pingback on Jul 21st, 2007 at 1:46 am

Do not use any < and > for your own sake. It will end the comment there and then. Also, there is an automatic IQ filter which weeds out comments made by those who accidentally got transported from the stone age.

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